Thanks, Jennifer — this is so well put. I’ve been thinking about these concepts as they relate to my STBX, and I don’t think they are just related to the affair. His FOO seems to struggle a lot with shame — which is likely a function of growing up in an alcoholic household and with a mother who drilled the perspective that they weren’t as good as other people into their developing brains. I think the shame led to rage: rage that I somehow didn’t see or absolve his shame, rage that he didn’t like himself while I had sufficient self esteem, rage that he couldn’t stop doing things (e.g., porn addiction) that made him feel even more shame. I think some of the sexual acting out was a passive aggressive way of expressing that rage, which led to guilt, which led to more shame because he couldn’t absolve the guilt. Remember what I said about cheaters not playing by the same set of rules as you? You just woke up to find out you’re in the fifth inning of Cheater Ball. When did the game start? What’s the score? Your cheater isn’t going to tell you. For cheaters, part of the game of Cheater Ball is denying they’re playing Cheater Ball. Work from the assumption that your cheater has a very different agenda than you do and that your well-being is not at the top of it.” Plus, getting involved with a hottie throwing themselves at you risks a sexual harassment lawsuit if you try to end it. Now, some people (and we call them sociopaths), simply don’t feel these emotions. And we see with horrific clarity what happens when Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy have no Guilt or Shame for their behavior. This is why we need these two emotions. They what stand between society and the more base desires of every human soul. Schrodinger’s Chump: Your request is polite, respectful, and humble. You did nothing wrong. The big argument afterward is not your fault.

In hindsight, gee, why is the only time I ever had any yeast infections was that spring of the non-affair? He still does not know about the infections, but he did get an earful last spring when he finally admitted to affair #1… 13 years later… and I pointed out his darling little girl could have been born with birth defects because he never told me, and I did not get tested right away. I’m only telling my particular story here but I was never suicidal until I learned that my now-ex was having a long term affair with someone I knew. He put HER career before OUR marriage, her before me. That’s why we’re divorced, my girls are estranged from their father, and OW’s enjoying a cushy post doc at a prestigious university – because XH refused to do what the dentist is trying to do, put his marriage first.I’ve kinda given up trying to figure him out although as time moves on I realize that he has some serious disturbances. For quiet a while I thought it was us just not being compatible, being too young when married, etc, ….but I woke up when I left him and he’s repeated the same pattern with women that came after our divorce – Red, this story is making me so sad. What kind of personality can spend a life with you and NEVER EVEN BOND? Anyone know? Or is this just Narc 101? Is that a cheater thing or a guy thing? I’ve always been terrified of STD, but xH never seemed to care. Ironically, he’s the one with the highly profitable profession (at which he is very successful), great networks, terrific hobbies and all that shit. I actually looked up to him and thought he was great. In his twisted mind, he thought I looked down on him. He was such a liar, he thought every time I said something nice, I was lying, because that’s what he would do.

It is our responsibility to decide what we can and can’t handle and to either engage or leave. NOT to micromanage the other party. I don’t like to see violent sexual assaults on tv a la Game of Thrones, so I fast forward through it rather than demand it stops existing. And when we did the bogus reconciliation, my first condition was that he had to quit working in that exercise program (by then, one of the women had left and the other had become owner of the company). He DID quit, and you know what? Big deal, he still kept right on cheating and lying like always. He hired her because of her qualifications and I am sure the fact that she presents an attractive appearance, was a plus. Infidelity is a choice. People cheat because they feel entitled to cheat. That’s it. That’s my simple answer to the painful question of why. I don’t believe people cheat because they’re broken, or they have family of origin issues, or because of the staggering powers of Facebook crushes. I don’t believe people cheat because of midlife crises, which descend on former church deacons like a toxic cloud of musk cologne. I don’t believe people cheat because of perimenopause.” Also the thought of the owhore waltzing into my life, taking my home and little one. I’m sure FW and OW would have loved thatWhen I told my husband, and asked him to get tested as soon as possible, it actually took him a couple weeks. He was just so busy traveling, you see. And it’s not like you can get tested just ANYWHERE. Ass. That was weeks of me having to wait and worry. Just one more injury to add to the long list. You’re on to something there. I can’t tell you how many times I heard statements like, “I wish you would just disappear.”